85. The Hidden Link Between Trauma and Migraines (And How to Heal)

In this powerful conversation, Dr. Leslie Cisar and Mary from the Healing Migraines Naturally Facebook community tackle one of the most-asked questions: "Can trauma cause my migraines?"

Whether it's Big T trauma (major life events) or little t trauma (smaller, repeated experiences that shape your beliefs), the answer isn't a simple yes or no.

Dr. Leslie explains how unconscious beliefs formed from trauma, like feeling defective, unworthy, or "not normal" can quietly drain your vitality and keep your body stuck in a pattern of migraines.

You'll learn:

- How emotional and spiritual trauma can influence the physical experience of migraines
- Why unconscious beliefs ("I'm broken," "I have to be perfect to be loved") sabotage your healing
- The mind-body connection between mental/emotional pain and migraine pain
- How coping mechanisms like perfectionism can push your body's "needle" into the migraine zone
- Why addressing beliefs and restoring vitality is just as crucial as nutrients and detox

This episode is about understanding that migraines are second-order symptoms. They can be your body's way of saying something deeper needs attention. And it's about giving you hope that healing is possible when you address the root causes: getting nutrients to every cell, clearing metabolic waste, and restoring your resiliency and vitality.

If you've ever wondered whether your past is keeping you stuck in migraines, this episode is for you.

Schedule your free consultation below

https://www.drlesliecisar.com/apply

Free Training: 5 Proven Steps to Being Migraine Free (Even if you think you've already tried everything.)

https://www.drlesliecisar.com/5SHMN

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Free Facebook Group: Healing Migraines Naturally, with Leslie Cisar, ND

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Episode Transcript

you are listening to the Healing Migraines
Naturally podcast I'm your host
Doctor Leslie Caesar
and I'm helping women all over the country
rediscover a migraine free life
today I'm talking to Mary
who runs our awesome Facebook community
about the question a lot of people ask
is my trauma causing my migraines
welcome Mary
how are you today I'm doing awesome
it's a beautiful morning here
it's kind of it's a little gray
like there's not much sunshine out there
but I am a big fan of the storm
I know most migraine people aren't
but it looks super pretty and ready to rain so oh
awesome we were raining here this morning too
that's funny coincidence and like we we all need it
you know so I'm kind of like
I'm I'm ready to just go out and stand in the rain
go dance in the rain so how's everything going with you
good moving through the summer here
can't believe how fast it goes
it really does I'm like
how is it already mid July
this is not okay hahaha
so so with this trauma thing
I'm sitting here going
are we talking about physical trauma
or emotional trauma or
you know big t trauma
little t trauma all of the things
what are we defining as trauma today
yeah great question
so my intention
with the word trauma
was to talk about trauma that's occurring
on the mental and emotional side
of us not physical trauma
like an accident or injury
things like that but
more trauma that's occurring
on the mental and emotional side
and perhaps even on the spiritual side
oh that makes sense
we did talk about head trauma once
if anybody wants to refer back to that
I can put that in the show notes
so yeah great idea
yeah we did do that podcast episode on head injuries
mm hmm yeah
that would be a physical trauma
okay cool
yeah let's talk about the emotional and spiritual kind
yeah so it's interesting
as many people listening
you might be part of our migraine Facebook group
called Healing Migraines Naturally with Leslie
Caesar and d but it's interesting
this question you don't see it come up
that frequently in the Facebook group
what do you think Mary
I would agree I do
I would think it's hard for people to either
be vulnerable enough to post those kinds of things
but also connect that to their migraines
I mean we talked about before that we tend to keep
like our physical and emotional selves
kind of separated in our heads
so I think it would probably be more challenging
or a little more outside the box
to think of emotional trauma connected to our migraines
yeah I think most of the questions revolve around has
you know what experience
have people had with a certain medication
or a certain natural supplement
or a device you know
like a Cefaly device something like
that people asking questions around diets
things like that but occasionally
we will get a question around this topic
but it's not brought up very frequently
and so
I really wanted to talk about this on the podcast
because it's a very crucial aspect of migraines
so I mean
does that in your mind I'm guessing
say yes
there is a connection between emotional
spiritual trauma to our migraines
absolutely so when we experience physical symptoms
right because when we get a migraine
we're experiencing things physically
we're experiencing physical pain in our head
we are experiencing dizziness
which is a physical symptom right
we're experiencing nausea
that's a physical symptom right
we can feel that in our abdomen
we might be experiencing loose stools right
it's a physical symptom so
because migraines are so centered
around physical symptoms that we're experiencing
doctors natural practitioners
even those of us experiencing those physical symptoms
we assume that the reason for the physical symptoms
is something on the physical side of the body
when we experience symptoms
that are on the mental and emotional side
so anxiety
we can certainly have physical symptoms with anxiety
but the the focus of those symptoms
the the mass of the symptoms
the weight of a symptom like anxiety
is on the mental and emotional side
so when we have a symptom that's really heavily focused
where the symptoms are showing up
mentally or emotionally we assume
there's something on that mental and emotional side
right which is kind of a nebulous side to us
but we assume that the anxiety is coming
from this mental and emotional aspect of ourselves
because that's where the symptom is focused
I'm so fascinated like
by our culture and how we hard line between the two
I just find that so fascinating
like I wonder where that started or how that came to be
but I don't know if I want to get on that soap box
or down that rabbit hole but
I think it's so interesting
that we do have that very disconnected
perspective on mind and body
yeah some people
I was actually a philosophy major in college
so I could actually
this could be a whole another boring podcast episode
but many people trace that back to Rene Descartes
the French philosopher who said
I think therefore I am
a lot of people trace it back to them
but really you can trace this duality
going through western philosophy
to the Greeks before the Greeks
it it's a long standing thread through western culture
civilization and different cultures
I'm also a student particularly of Indian culture
and Indian philosophy and Ayurveda
the native medicine of India
and so there's not that
drawing a duality within that tradition
so it's interesting there's different uh cultures
different uh
philosophical traditions have treated this differently
but in the west we had
do have this particular duality
concept between the mind and the body
well and I think that
makes it just so challenging in our minds too to
oh my gosh I have a migraine
there must be something emotionally going on like
I don't know
all that many people that would go to that conclusion
yeah cause it's so physical right
we experience it so physically
not that we don't have anxiety
you know certainly our mind can go oh no
what about I got something at three PM today
what if I can't make that
what's gonna happen now
I'm gonna have to I'm gonna be embarrassed if I cancel
I mean we can definitely have anxiety with a migraine
for sure or
or we could have other mental symptoms
like brain fog or things like that
but predominantly right
the meat of the symptoms the weight of the symptoms
are really on the physical side
and so
we assume that there's something physically wrong
and so this drives again
kind of going back to some of the typical questions
we see in the Facebook group right
this drives a lot of questions around like my pillow
do I have the right pillow right
cause if I'm waking up every morning and you know
my neck hurts and the back of my head hurts well
what's physically
touching my neck and the back of my head
all night long my pillow
so this is kind of where our mind goes right
cause our mind is is wired
is designed to figure out why we are in pain
so that we can get out of the pain
stop doing what's causing the pain
or avoid the pain or or what not
this
this is a protective mechanism that the mind activates
and so this gets kicked off when we have a migraine
but the mind is going to focus on physical things
causing it so this is
you know do I need the right chiropractor
do I need the right massage therapist
other physical things right
so if we take a medication
that is altering our physical biochemistry
to get rid of the migraine right
even if we take a natural substance
to get rid of the migraine
that's altering our physical
biochemistry to get rid of the migraine so
you know if we strap on a Cephali device
that's a physical physical piece of equipment
we're strapping something physical
on to our physical body to alleviate the migraine
so everything that is typically done
whether it's conventional
quote unquote alternative medicine is very
very focused on the physical body
trying to make the physical body right
so that we don't get the migraine well
and I think going back just
you know thinking through many
many episodes we've done
it's probably more accurate that it's kind of like a
a vicious circle of both physical and emotional
like
the more you're trying to solve your physical problems
that causes more stress which more you know what I mean
like
can actually make the migraines worse or vice versa
like if you're struggling with emotions on some level
even if they're you know
buried deep down and you don't even notice right
like then you're gonna get more migraines
and fight it physically
so I don't I think it definitely is a vicious cycle
so what is actually true is
there is not this wall between our physical body
and our mental and emotional and spiritual aspect
everything is totally intermingled
and so we can have physical symptoms
we can feel something physically
that's starting on the mental and emotional
or spiritual side of us
and we can have mental and emotional symptoms
that are starting on the physical side of us so
for example something that's a physical phenomenon
that we can experience
pretty significantly on the mental and emotional side
is if we have a bout of low blood sugar
if we have a low blood sugar episode
if our blood sugar gets too low
our body goes into fight or flight mode
because if the blood sugar goes too low
and under normal metabolism
our brain is running on glucose
so if the glucose
or the sugar level gets too low in the bloodstream
our we're gonna pass out
the brain isn't gonna have enough fuel to function
so if we have a low blood sugar episode
the body goes into fighter flight mode
and releases adrenaline and cortisol
and when those hormones are in our bloodstream
we can feel like we're having a panic attack
I can definitely attest to that exactly
me too hundred percent yeah
I get super shaky and then once that kicks in
I am definitely battling anxiety for sure
our oh my gosh
my heart's racing and everything and then you're like
oh panic
exactly our hearts racing
we're sweating we're woozy and doozy and you know
foggy and it feels very similar to a panic attack
so this is something that we are experiencing
to a significant degree mentally and emotionally
that is being caused by physical hormones
and the physiological
or biochemical response that our body is having to
physical hormones yeah
very interesting so even things like uh
so again add low blood sugar episode
I mean
you can be real out of body and unfocused and you know
I can't think clearly so for children again
many children
are suffering from low blood sugar episodes
and children have no idea right
cause when we're a kid we think
what we feel is just what we're supposed to feel
my poor daughter when she was 5 and entering Kinder
kindergarten you know
you have to get the eye check to go into kindergarten
eye exam to go into kindergarten
and we had no idea that she couldn't see
oh no haha
I went in with her to my regular eye doctor
cause I wear glasses and and the eye doctor said oh
any concerns I said
oh no no concerns
we're just here for the kindergarten eye exam because
you know she could write and draw and color
I mean
I had no indication that she had a severe astigmatism
so we walked out of there with a
with a glasses prescription right
and then when she got them two weeks later
and they came in she was like
wow'cause she had no idea that she was looking
you know that things right
she just assumed
that's how the world was supposed to look like
yeah that must have been really interesting for her
to have such a huge perspective shift there
so you know
add is something I'm
I'll get on my soapbox a little bit here Mary
I hope you don't mind but
you know
add is something that's rampant in children these days
but you can have low blood sugar episodes
and not be able to focus oh
for sure yeah
for sure right
so
we can definitely experience things on the mental side
right add right
if we cannot focus that is a mental symptom
so we can experience symptoms that are very focused
on the mental and emotional side
that are being generated by physical
biochemical realities in the physical body
there's no barrier there and then similarly
we can have things that are
starting on the mental and emotional side
that we're feeling physically
so if we have mental and emotional pain
caused by experiences that we have been through
why is it such a stretch to think that
we would not have physical pain
I think the one 1 thing that we have connected
to physical pain is probably stress
as far emotional
I think it's pretty common for people to go oh
I'm stressed out
I need to go get a massage because my neck's all
or my shoulders like that's one thing
I do see people connecting physical emotional
but not very often
very many other physical things are attributed back
I don't know I don't hear it
yes for sure
because if we yeah
many people will say yeah
you know what if if I have a conflict with a loved one
I'm very likely to get a migraine right
it's like
the stress of that conflict can be enough of a
drain on their vitality or a stress on their vitality
that it puts them into their migraine zone
and if you're new to the podcast
check out some of our other podcasts on resilience
and vitality and what I call the third Principle
so yes and we can make that correlation
or we can make that connection
because it's so immediate
I had the argument
and then the next day I had the migraine
it's pretty obvious
the problem is when people experience
if we can use the word trauma
so by this I mean if people were
you know when they were a child
they were in a dysfunctional family environment
and that could be a broad range of things okay
but just sort of a general
dysfunctional family environment
that can generate what I would call trauma
in this case
and we'll talk about how the trauma is generated
or what trauma is more specifically
but I want to kind of lay this out
so this can be generated
if people have the experience
of being raised in a dysfunctional family
poor people
can experience things that we typically call trauma
like perhaps they were sexually abused
physically abused mentally abused
emotionally abused right
typically culturally
we call those things trauma right
we say well
that person has a trauma history
but dysfunctional family background
I think is important to put into this category
well I
you know it never occurred to me
like years ago
before people started talking about big trauma t
big t trauma and little t trauma
you know that there could be a difference
like big t trauma could be
like you said a major abuse situation
little t trauma might be more like
occasional bullying at school
both are traumatic
just in different ways and in different
I guess levels
I don't like comparing traumas though
haha overall
I'm like just because
you know the old saying
you can drown in 2 inches of water
just like you can drown in a pool
it doesn't make sense to compare traumas
but I think for this podcast purpose
it's important to point out
there's lots of different types of trauma
and they can all affect you period
no you're right
I have had clients where they were bullied in
you know junior high
high school
and that has had an impact on their health and is
you know was part of the reason
not the entire reason
but part of the reason why they were getting migraines
absolutely and sometimes
little trauma can be just like
witnessing somebody else
going through something horrific like um
when I was in my 20s
my ex husband's family lost a child
and I wasn't right in the middle of it
because we were getting divorced
but that did leave a significant impact on me for sure
you know what I mean
so there's so many varieties of ways haha
unfortunately haha
and we can experience things that are very traumatic
that generate a similar phenomenon in the unconscious
so we can have a loss right
we can lose a loved one we could have a severe
you know a very severe illness right
so many times people are traumatized
because they are a cancer survivor
and the treatment for the cancer was so
so debilitating so traumatic in that way
so we can experience sort of under this trauma umbrella
right there can be things that we typically
think of as trauma our dysfunctional family dynamics
are very important to consider
and then
these other life events that happen to us can be
you know are under that trauma umbrella
when I think back just to 2020 itself
like haha I guess
we are all traumatized on some level from that year
and yes we certainly are
yeah and it's not like for me
I didn't get Covid till 2022
so I didn't personally go through Covid back then
but the whole entire situation was traumatic
for all of us absolutely
anyway we could make a big long list if we wanted to
but I'll let you continue to the next point
so when we experience something under this
trauma umbrella is not a guarantee
that it is going to have a physical impact
it's going to generate physical symptoms
and what I have found in my work
is that there's
sort of
something that has to get laid down in the unconscious
in order for it to have an impact on our health
and that is
we have to develop a false belief due to the trauma
due to the occurrence under the trauma umbrella
now I'm calling it a false belief
but to us
when it has gotten laid down in our unconscious
it doesn't seem like a false belief to us
it seems like a true belief
and these false beliefs are things that are
along common lines so
you can imagine that it would be pretty reasonable
for a child
growing up in a dysfunctional family environment where
let's say one of the parents was very
very critical and belittling in the criticism right
not a constructive criticism environment
but a shaming criticism
a belittling criticism environment
it would be very reasonable right
we could we could imagine that
that child might develop the false belief
that they are inherently defective in some way
and so to the child
that starts to develop this unconscious belief
it's not going to feel false to them
it's going to feel 100% true on an unconscious level
well and because it's unconscious
it's not even something you're aware of
and that makes it hard to analyze
so like if you have this deep
you know down in the depths of your soul
belief that you're defective
but you don't even know that thought is there
you can't bring it up and say oh
that's ridiculous of course
I'm not defective because you can't address something
that's not conscious so in there
and there's not a lot of power that you have over it
until you can make it more conscious
what is that old philosopher or not
maybe it was a psychologist
that said something about
having to bring things conscious before you can
I can't think of how it's worded
but having to bring things conscious
before you can actually deal with it
mm hmm so let's kind of use this hypothetical child
so they're in this environment and again
they have a parent that is critical
and a belittling and shaming way
not in a constructive way
because children do have to be criticized
they have to learn how to act in the world right
they have to learn how to function
so criticism is required for that
but when the criticism is belittling shaming
there's constructive criticism
and unconstructive criticism right
so again
I I just want to distinguish in this day and age
we're moving towards a fear of criticism
or nothing should be criticized right
and that's out of balance too
criticism
constructive criticism is required for all of us
we want the criticism to be balanced
we don't want it to be yeah
that's the difference between telling the child
you chose to do something bad versus you are bad
it's a big difference I mean
not that you're saying you're bad
but the message under what you're saying can either be
you just chose
something that you shouldn't have chosen
or you're a bad person haha
so we have this child right being shamed belittled
etcetera children
always assume that what they are being told is correct
right and children will always believe the parents
particularly when they're little once you know
there has to be a brain development
a maturity aspect that starts to develop
you know after puberty in children
where they start to
be able to have some more discernment
around what their parents are telling them
but but when they're little
their default is to believe their parents
and so if the parent is communicating again
it like you say it may not be even overt specific
but if the parent is suddenly
even communicating a message
you're defective there's something wrong with you
the child is going to believe that
now how painful is it to think that we are defective
the pain that that thought generates
is one of the most profound pains
that somebody can experience
we will do whatever it takes to get out of pain
we've talked about this a lot on the podcast
our mind is wired
is designed to figure out how to get us out of pain
and so if we have this belief that we are defective
in the unconscious
our mind is going to start to drive us
to do a lot of things to compensate
or counter or try to prove that belief wrong
now for those of us women who are prone to migraines
okay so it's very interesting again
if we kind of go with this hypothetical
family environment
let's say we've got three kids in the family
and they're all exposed to this environment
so one child is going to counter
this extraordinarily painful belief
by maybe being very
very good at school a student right
that would be a great way right
if I can get A's then I must not be defective
they might excel at athletics
well if I can get on the varsity
you know if I can get the trophies
if I can get on the a team
if I can do this and that
then I can't be defective
and so many of you might relate to this
because it's
this child that grows up to be prone to migraines
if they're going to be prone to migraines
it's this one of the three children in the household
that's going to get the migraines
I find that so interesting because if
if migraines were a physical only thing
you would think that all three children
would be prone to migraines
but where it's also emotional
it's that like you said
that type a always trying to improve and never stopping
and the ones that work hard and have
you know serve everybody on and on and on
those are the ones who suffer from migraines
then we have another
and usually it's the oldest that will take
that'll cope with this very
very painful belief that they are defective
it's usually the oldest that will take that tactic
not always but usually
and then we have the second child coping with this very
very painful belief by fleeing
running away from it
if I can get as far away from this belief as possible
this will be the child that grows up to be an adult
where they're you know
we really don't hear that much from them
they don't come around that makes me sad hahaha
but it's a fleeing coping mechanism
and you will see that then as an adult
many times they will be have difficulty
you know no job is good enough
no relationship is good enough right
the flee and coping mechanism
you can see that repeated um
many times this is the middle child
but again not always
I have a typical middle child
and that he's like the total peacemaker
he's such a like
whatever it takes to make everybody happy and peaceful
but I'm he's not quite in the fleeing
so now I'm a little freaked out
well again again
this is looking at responses to a painful
belief in the unconscious
this is not I'm not traumatizing my children
I don't wanna traumatize you
Mary with this conversation
no OK
hold up people
we gotta pause a second
I need to go do some therapy first
no I know right
no I'm just
I'm really just like
really thinking through the family order theory
and like it is interesting that I like
isn't it weird that every family has the peacemaker
every family has a goat the scapegoat
every family has the overachiever
I think and when you have
you know
more children or less children or even a single child
it's just interesting how that plays out
so sorry
I always go when you talk
I always go into like oh yeah
that sounds just like one of my kids or haha
and just to clarify right there
there are
personality characteristics that have been shown
you know
more associated with people with different birth order
but this what I'm talking about
really specifically is this response to these painful
unconscious beliefs but I love you Mary
because you and I are both moms and we moms right
we're always thinking like
what have I done to screw up my children
because you know
here's the thing I mean
I studied psychology
and I've taught parenting classes for quite a while
and I used to joke with my clients like look
we all screw up our kids
it's just on a level of like how much and in what way
because we're human you know
so like
no one's getting out of parenting perfectly
no one's getting out of being a parent
without having some sort of like Dang
I wish I had done something different
so it's just interesting k OK
I'll be quiet now and you talk no
no I just no
I'm glad you brought this up
cause anybody listening if you have you
you know if you have a child and the oldest
your oldest child is an overachiever
that does not mean that you have traumatized them right
that is right
that is a typical characteristic of the first born
that's why when they have
when they're trying to cope with a very
very painful unconscious belief
if they're the first in the birth order they're
they have a tendency towards
towards coping with it in that way
because the first born has a tendency in general
the personality type in general is correlated with that
so if you have an overachiever child
it does not necessarily mean that they are struggling
with a extraordinarily painful
unconscious belief that you are responsible for
I'm just we're just gonna put that disclaimer
out there right now
yeah let's add more time on the
the women who are already struggling
right is anybody getting a migraine
just listening to this right now
I'm a bad mom on top of everything else yeah
so yes so we have that middle child right
typically they will flee okay
they will flee the painful unconscious belief
and then we have the third child
in this hypothetical situation
the third child many times will self destruct
they will make the unconscious belief to be true
and that is it's a coping mechanism in a way right
well if you think I am
let me show you it's sort of
it's that type of a coping mechanism
with that unconscious belief
it's like oh
well you think I'm defective
let me show you defective
let me show you how much I'm yeah
just how defective
so that is that can be another coping mechanism
so for those of us that are prone to migraines
we are typically if we have an unconscious
painful belief we are the ones that are kind of
trying to prove our way out of that unconscious belief
we are the ones that are prone to migraines
and I it's funny I see this with my clients
you know I will have clients where you know
they're the ones getting the migraines
they had you know
they had a dysfunctional family background
and they're the ones getting the migraines
and you know
I've had many clients say to me
you know my sister
my younger sister you know
she recovering alcoholic she was in jail
you know for five years
you know I mean
just kind of like you know
I'm kind of exaggerating here
but you know this this type of thing right
and she's now has
she hasn't gotten a migraine a day in her life
and she's you know
treats her body haha doing drugs or alcohol or whatever
doesn't take any care of her body
or she's doing all you know
she stole money from my parents
you know wrote bad checks
you know what whatever it is right
and she hasn't had a migraine or day in her life
you know uh
vice president and I eat organic and
you know
three great children that are excelling in school
I'm debilitated it's a pretty common refrain
yeah that just is goes to show you
you know that it isn't something that your defect like
like going back to the defective thing
because your migraines we do see
I'm sorry I'm all over the place
my thoughts are jumping
but we do see in the group comments like
you know why am I like this
I feel like I'm broken kind of a thing
you know you can't be much more of a devoted person
and working hard
and all of that and you're still getting migraines
if that doesn't tell you that it's not you
and you being broken
I don't know what does do you mean right
it's not something on the physical side right
people have exhausted every option on the physical side
what does that tell you
it's not being generated on the physical side
well
and I guess my point too is even on the emotional side
you know you can't say that you're defective
because you were doing everything in your power
to be an amazing human
but you're still getting migraines
you know what I'm saying like you're not a bad human
there's nothing wrong with you as a person
but there are things to change does that make sense
yes exactly
so like I say the
the common
general theme that gets laid down in our unconscious
when we have experienced something
under the trauma umbrella
it's going to be something along the lines of
there's something wrong with me and
you know it's gonna be in that realm you know
nobody likes me I'm being teased in middle school
people are you know putting slime on my chair
people are they're making fun of me
they're taunting me they're telling me you know
my face is ugly it's highly reasonable that somebody
would pick up a belief on the unconscious level
that there's something wrong with them
it's a pretty human thing to do
and so it's in the unconscious
it's very very painful unbelievably painful
and so then we will try to not feel that pain
we're gonna do things we're gonna change our life
we're gonna do different things
to try to not feel that pain
of that belief
but those things do not get rid of the belief
they counter the belief they oppose the belief
they suppress the belief
but they don't get rid of the belief
I have worked with clients
they have reached the Pinnacle of success
professionally with their family
with their relationships
their achievements Pinnacle of success
you know
I I just never feel like I really deserve this right
because if we have something in the unconscious
you know I'm not worthy I'm defective
there's something wrong with me right
it doesn't matter how many trophies we get well
and like no amount yeah no amount of accomplishment
is going to prove that wrong
in our minds like we have to
I guess I don't even know a good word for it
we have to like recognize that well
and to recognize it we have to confront the pain of it
and not in a retraumatizing way
when I do this work with my clients
you know people don't have to break down and cry
and relive anything but we have to actually admit
connect to realize that the belief is actually there
because nobody wants to consciously think that
they're unworthy they're defective
there's something wrong with them
and many times people will say no
you know
I could see maybe I felt that when I was younger
I don't feel that way anymore
you're a perfectionist
you have anxiety if things are not done
it's like okay
wait a minute here and I'm not saying that I mean
I am subject to the same things right
I'm not saying this as a criticism
it's a reality well
I think too when you bring up perfectionism
like
we almost wear perfectionism as like a badge of honor
like I am a perfectionist
that sounds really beautiful
haha the problem is
from my experience
and what I've researched and Learned about
like being a perfectionist
is actually a cover for a lot of insecurities
and worries and stress so
if I ever let anyone see me do anything
less than perfect they're gonna
find out that I'm not as good as they think I am
that's a big load to carry
big load exactly
but this is what the human mind does too right
you know other people they don't care as much as I do
I care so much so we can again
this is all to cope with an unconscious belief right
and so we will
many people will put themselves on a pedestal
why wouldn't you right
if you have an unconscious belief
that you are defective unworthy
wouldn't it be
pretty reasonable for you to put yourself
on a pedestal to try to counter that
you're gonna do anything you can not to feel that way
and so people kind of
they're using some of these things
right in their mind
it kind of puts them on a pedestal
you know
other people don't care as much about me as I do
other people don't care as much about this work as I do
you know I used to work in corporate America
this is rampant and I used to think like this
well I
I just care a lot more than other people right
it was a way for me to kind of
put myself on that pedestal right
once I realized this whole dynamic within myself
then when I went into the office
boy did things look different to me right
and I could see other people right
a lot of inner office politics is
other people trying to cut other people down
so they can be on the pedestal
well why are they doing that
because they have this
some underlying belief in the unconscious
that's causing them suffering and pain
and they want to counter that right
and so then
we're being victimized at the office
by what we call office politics
because other people are suffering deeply
from an extremely painful belief
and they're unconscious
and the way out of that is to sabotage us at work
I mean and you just
like these types of wounds
if like
if you're not aware of them
there is not any amount of accomplishment or running
or drinking that's gonna make it better
does that make sense
like you can't you can't outrun those types of hurts
you have to face them unfortunately
I would like to be able to skip that myself
but haha
it has to be you know
I think in my own experience with my own personal work
and my work with my clients
so I have been very afraid in my life
to face these types of things within myself
and I have many clients express that to me
I can't wait to work with you Doctor Leslie
but boy am I scared haha what is gonna come up
and I relate I've been there totally
but what I have found in myself in my own journey
walking with other women on their journey
is that once we get there
oh is it it's such a relief
right to finally confront this boogeyman
ghost that has been tormenting us for so long
and realizing that it's actually not true
we thought it was true so profoundly and so deeply
when we do have that courage
right to stop the running
stop the perfectionistic behavior
stop the destructive behavior
when we finally have the courage to face it
we realize oh
this was just a false this was just false
and then it's it's a wonderful feeling
it's a wonderful feeling when we realize that you know
and I just in my life I'm you know
40 ish
I should say 29 ish but
I'm finally realizing that not one human doesn't have
something in them
do you know what I mean like you're not alone
there is not a single human on this planet that isn't
struggling maybe not today
but at some point in their life
struggling to figure things out
struggling to find their worth
struggling to connect with someone's
we're all doing some sort of struggling
that's being human we all have false
painful beliefs in our unconscious
that feel true to us that feel very
very true to us but they're actually false
I've been um studying kind of it's kind of cheesy
but I love personality theories and like
what makes people tick
and why they are the way they are
and um I've been studying the Enneagram
are you familiar with that at all
I mean I'm not gonna go into it
cause it's a lot of information
but like every human
there's nine types according to that theory
and it's like
every human has a basic fear and a basic motivation
and I'm looking around at myself
and everyone around me and I'm like Dang
you can see once you understand
you know the basic fear and the basic motivation
like you can actually see it in how everybody
is playing in life and that's why I'm saying like yeah
migraine suffers we are struggling
we are having a hard time and everything
but it's not just you
you're not alone in this struggle you know
and it's so once we start to get in tune right
with how these unconscious dynamics play out
consciously right
in our behavior and our thoughts and our emotions
and so on yes
once we start to understand this
then we can really start to see it in other people
right our friends
our family coworkers
things like that
but it's so hard to see it in ourselves hahaha
it's also very painful like hahaha
I'm not gonna lie
I've been with that studying I've been doing
it's been like you know
you see the both sides of the coin like oh
this is a really good character trait that I have
and then you see the underbelly of it and you're like
ah
I'm not loving that part you know
but we're all in the same boat
like like I said
there's nine different personality types
according to that one theory
and you know
I see it in my my son he's a like
for example he's a very outgoing fun
exciting always wants to be doing something
he's very optimistic in general
he's wanting to go out and conquer the world
and all of that's beautiful
but I also see that a lot of that is
he's avoiding boredom
he's avoiding loneliness or whatever
you know so
even though he has
like these beautiful personality traits
there's also that underside of it
where he has to work on you know
how to deal with boredom
how to deal with loneliness things anyway
I won't keep going but yeah
we all have the upside and the downside of what we're
going through in life you know
so that's my soap box for the day
so when we are harboring
when we have these painful unconscious beliefs
how does this impact how we feel physically
again it's pretty clear to us right
like I have a lot of clients
they say yeah
you know I know I have control issues
and they feel the anxiety
and so it's easier for us to see yeah
you know what
there's something going on here in the unconscious
that's generating this control issue
and I feel anxiety
and all of that is on that mental and emotional side
right that seems very obvious to us
so how is we are experiencing something physically
starting on the mental and emotional side right
that's like we talked about at the top
that seems impossible to us almost right
so again I wanna challenge that
if we are in tremendous pain
because of an unconscious belief
why would that not be physical pain
well like I said
I think that it's easy for us to go to the stress thing
like well
I'm just stressed
so of course I have back pain or whatever
it's a little bit harder to go past just stress
and connect to migraines I think it's just
well and people too
they say well
I'm stressed so I'm clenching my jaw again
we're back in the physical right
you can have physical pain and not a muscle be tight
right you can have anxiety and have physical symptoms
and not be clenching anywhere
right'cause people say this
I was asleep when the physical pain came on
and I don't think I'm clenching while I'm sleeping
right so you could be right
but I mean people kind of know
you know what I
this came on and no physical muscles were clenched haha
but again we always like
oh well
it's the stress causing me to do something physical
and then the physical is causing the pain
it doesn't have to be that way
and I know this through my own personal experience
with my physically painful migraines
and working with hundreds of women
and seeing this play out time after time after time
so I think we've like
covered the connection really good
but I guess my next thought slash question is
you know okay
we talk a lot about vitality draining
and things like that and all of these stressors
and trauma are draining that vitality
and you said you don't have to go
rehash your past and live through all the trauma again
right so like
I guess in my head I'm like
but then what do you do what do you do right
exactly what is the magic here Leslie
hahaha so
the belief in the unconscious
that's generating the pain
mental pain emotional pain
spiritual pain physical pain
that belief in the unconscious
that's generating the pain
we think it's true
these girls in junior high told me I was disgusting
so I must be disgusting
that is the painful belief in the unconscious
that seems true to us is it true
it is not there is no human being that is disgusting
as a human being so what is health
health is alignment physically mentally
emotionally spiritually
if we have a false belief
that is out of alignment with reality
health is alignment
if we are out of alignment with reality
we are going to feel it
the nature of reality is structured this way
how else would we know
that we are out of alignment with reality
unless we had a signal people can suffer
let's talk about something on the spiritual side right
people lose a child god forbid this happens
people can develop a belief
god hates me god is punishing me
that would be again
it feels true to us but that would be a false belief
how else would we know that we are carrying
around a false belief unless we had a signal
how else would we know that
we are carrying around a belief
that we you know
that our face is physically disgusting
because we were told that in junior high by the girls
and we've been carrying that around
and we've been fighting that for so long
how else would we know that we are
carrying around a false belief
unless we had a signal
and it like we always talk about the signals can
can very well be the migraines right
like that's your signal right there
correct just like
how would we know if we have a nutrient deficiency
unless we got a signal from the body
we've talked about this in other podcast
I talk about this in my free training
called The 5 Steps to Healing Migraines
naturally symptoms are signals
symptoms are signals that are
inviting us to take action
so that we can feel better right
how else would we know that we have something
out of alignment physically mentally
emotionally or spiritually
how would we know unless we had a signal
hahaha we would have no idea
and I personally believe you know
the point of us being here is
to move closer and closer to truth
with a capital t
and there's a physical truth of the body
and I call these the first principle
and the second principle
the physical truth of the body
is that every cell in the body needs the nutrients
that it needs to function
that's the first principle that we need to work on
to restore our health and another physical truth is
our cells cannot be swimming in metabolic waste
material that they generate
that has to get out of the cell and out of the body
and that's the second principle
what I call the second principle
clearing metabolic waste material
and the third principle is restoring our resilience
and vitality and our vitality is drained
when we are carrying around untrue beliefs
in our unconscious
they are by definition going to drain our vitality
and then all the things that we do to counter the pain
that that belief is generating
all of those things that we do
drain our vitality as well
you know I have a a client
she picked up a false belief in her childhood
that she was not normal again
it's under this umbrella of
there's something wrong with me
I'm defective broken
I'm not normal right I'm just
you know what it's under that umbrella
and so she put as she described it
she put a tremendous amount of time
into her appearance why wouldn't she right
if you have the false belief that you're not normal
you're gonna make a lot of effort trying to look normal
and in our work together she was able to identify that
she was carrying this around
and she was able to identify where she picked it up
right why did she pick this up
and then she was able to realize
everything she was doing to try to feel normal
and how heavy that was
how much work it was how draining it was right
well and you know
honestly the whole like
normal is so subjective that you would always be like
oh I have to chase this normal and that normal
and it depends on who I'm talking to
like it just is a like I said earlier
a huge weight to carry huge it right yeah
you can never satisfy
you can never satisfy a false belief
oh
that is probably like the biggest takeaway from today
I have to I mean
if we if nobody hears anything else from this
I hope they hear that
you can never satisfy a false belief
yeah you
you cannot cope your way out of it again
I'm a guide I cannot tell her this is what's going on
but I can guide her to her realization of this
and when she did this I talked with her
it was a week or two later
and she said you know
I went to the store without makeup on right
I love that what a relief
I wear makeup I'm not having a judgment on makeup
I'm not saying that if you're healthy
you don't wear makeup I'm
that's not what this is about
it's about her feeling comfortable as herself
well and proving to herself
her that you're not like nothing horrible happened
it was like by going to the store without makeup
you could be your true raw self without any makeup
and nothing actually went wrong
like I'm guessing there's not part B to that story
right
she is the wonderful miracle that she is
with or without makeup I love that
and so when we really when that's true for us
we can wear makeup we cannot wear makeup
we're not affected right
it's not about the makeup
so you can see right
we start with a false belief that seems true to us
that causes us suffering and where do we go from there
and this is where you know
other podcast
I've been a little critical of the typical therapist
typical counselor because people right
they realize yeah
you know what I have control issues I'm a perfectionist
you know I can't sleep at 3 in the morning
cause I'm worrying about work
they realize right this
this stuff that I'm doing is being caused by something
and I wanna get to the root
so that I'm not awake at 3 in the morning worrying
and they go into a counselor into a therapist
and they are given coping techniques
and coping techniques as the solution
not as a short term OK
let's get you through the day here
while we work on what's in the unconscious right
that's generating this spin no
no no coping techniques period
full stop this is what you do to cope
this is the equivalent of taking an imitrex
for your migraines
suppressing symptoms and stuff like that
suppressing it right
because the coping mechanism itself
is there to suppress the pain
that the unconscious belief is generating
and so the therapist is adding more coping mechanisms
adding more suppression on
it's just what your doctor's doing
when you're going into the doctor
so it's one thing to take an IMAX to make it through
while you're working on
correcting the underlying
problems that are generating the migraine
in the first place
it's one thing to have coping mechanisms
while you're working on okay
what's generating the control issue in the first place
interesting I know a few control freaks
haha
as we lovingly like to call them
in my experience trying to
control things around you is
usually a symptom of feeling
so anxious
that you have to do something in your environment
to make that feel better like
I don't think your mother in law is actually trying to
control you as much as she is trying to like
get the anxiety in her life
that comes from feeling like things are not in your
control under poor mother in laws hahaha
you get such a bad rap hahaha
I guess I have sympathy for him
cause being the mom of 4 boys
I'm like
there's no other option but being the mother in law
that's true right
hahaha
anyway yeah
that's interesting so yeah
it's interesting like that you
I don't know I'm just still back to the thing of like
you don't have to dig up the past and you don't have to
like you know
just slap some coping band Aids on it
but you can have a profound impact
on how you function and how you feel
by identifying and addressing
the underlying belief that you have
I'm gonna say this too before we close
I'm gonna have another criticism unfortunately
of a lot of counselors or therapists
a lot of people
even kind of in the alternative medicine space
that do this type of work
kind of like healers you know
this type of thing so
just having people relive the trauma
does not identify the unconscious
painful belief so just
you know
describing what you went through and reliving it
and getting all worked up again
and crying again and in a fetal position
that does not identify the unconscious
painful belief that got laid down
so what I'm describing is something that's
very intentional
we're going in with a specific intention
we're not gratuitously I'll be honest with you
a lot of people who are attracted to being a therapist
store quote unquote healer type
you know people that kind of do this type of stuff
whether it's a therapist with a license
or an unlicensed
you know quote unquote healing practitioner
a lot of times people go into that work
because they wanna hear the drama
there's something about hearing
about other people's drama
and trauma and suffering that energizes them
I have a theory on that
but I don't know if in some ways
I think that
it's so much easier to deal with other people's
problems than our own
that it's like I would rather like it's almost
it's like almost a coping it through
I'm gonna I'm gonna put my own problems on a shelf
and not have to deal with them
because I'm helping
so it takes a huge amount
and you know
I'm going actually going into a field similar
so I'm seeing this with full awareness
that I have to be very
very aware that I can't ignore my own issues and like
just fix people around me
because that's not going to help me or them
you know my own personal work right
I can't guide somebody I can't walk with somebody
past the point that I have been myself
and so this has been you know
other than my family the biggest priority in my life
is working through my false
unconscious beliefs and the impact and the spin
and the behaviors and the mental content
all these things that my unconscious
painful beliefs generate in me
because I can't walk with other people
further than I have already walked
and on the flip side of that coin too though
like there is no such thing as a perfect
never been through anything
healer or practitioner or therapist
like we have to go through stuff
in order to be able to help others
so it's a it's a very fine balance
it is my painful
unconscious beliefs
have been the biggest gift of my life
and allow me to do the work that I do
I'm grateful every day
for the suffering they've caused me
because that suffering motivated me
and now I have you know
every day I get to help other people
I have a tremendous sense of purpose
so
I'm grateful every day for the pain and suffering of
that the unconscious
false beliefs that I have picked up in my life
they've served me greatly
because I've taken the action around them that I have
so I want people to think about this right
this process it's the mean between the extremes right
we have one extreme
where we're just papering over the false
unconscious beliefs with coping mechanisms right
we're trying
we're just trying more things to suppress them
and then we have the other side
where we're just going over and over
staying in the pain and the muck and everything else
right with
and that's it reliving it right
having and even worse
working with someone who is just kind of
feeding themselves off of our trauma
this what we actually need to do is
we need to be intentional
know what we're looking for
right so that we're not going out of balance
on either one of those sides
I think that was a doozy of a episode
I'm not gonna lie
we did we all need to go take a nap after that
so
well I guess we're done
guess we covered it we did yep
well thanks again for joining me Mary
really appreciate you awesome
it was a good day I'll talk to you soon
talk to you soon