Dr. Leslie Cisar, and I'm a licensed naturopathic doctor, former chronic migraine sufferer,
and I've dedicated my life to helping other women with migraines rediscover a migraine-free life.
So welcome to the podcast today. I have a special guest, Jean, who's here to share her healing story
with us. Welcome, Jean. How are you today? Hi, Dr. Leslie. I'm good. Thank you for having me.
Absolutely. Absolutely. So you're here today to talk about your recovery from chronic migraines.
So before we dive in here, tell us a little bit about yourself.
So I am 54, and I've been battling migraines since I was about 17. I have two grown children,
and I live in a suburb outside of Chicago. I work a full-time office job, and that's
my story in a nutshell. Yeah. Yeah. Well, tell us where, you know, what your life with migraines
has been like. Started when they were 19. You're 54 now. Yes. So I remember the first time I got
one. I was working part-time. I was in high school, and it just kind of caught me off guard because I
had never felt anything like that before. I'd never experienced a headache until this particular day,
and then after that, it just seemed like a regular thing. Some points in my life were better than
others, but as a whole, they seemed to get progressively worse as I got older. I would
start to feel them coming on usually late morning, usually after lunch, and right when
I'd feel it, I knew I was doomed for the rest of the day that I'd be ending up in a dark room
after work through the night and just hoping and praying I'd fall asleep so that I wouldn't
have to feel the pain. Yeah. Yeah. And did it take a while for you to get diagnosed with migraines?
It did. I always thought I suffered from tension headaches, and about five years ago,
I was diagnosed as having migraine, and it all made sense to me just the symptoms I had. They're
your typical migraine symptoms, but for some reason, all that time, I just thought I had
tension headaches, but I couldn't take long walks without my head pounding and having to go way
down and just feeling sick to my stomach. Yeah. So what were you doing for the tension headaches,
and how did that change once you got that migraine diagnosis? Well, I had never gone
to a neurologist until about five years ago when I was formally diagnosed, so my primary care doctor
would prescribe me. When I was in my early 20s, I was prescribed pain pills, and then
I was prescribed, as the time went on, I was prescribed maybe a Triptan, and that seemed to
work really well for a while, and then it just didn't. And so then the doctor would prescribe
me something else, and then finally she just got to her wits end, and she told me I needed to see a
neurologist. That was about five years ago? Yes. And when you say pain pills, what kind of pain
pills, like Fioricet or? Fioricet, butylbutyl, and that was not good, not good. Tell us more.
Okay, I was raising young children at the time, and it just, I got addicted to pain pills,
and it was because I was prescribed them. If I could reach some of those years, I would not,
it was not good for me, it was not good for the people I lived with.
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, you and I are the same age, and back in the day, they would give
narcotic medications, you know, whether it be tension headache, migraine sufferers, you know,
they would do that, that practice has changed quite a bit, especially recently. But yeah,
I hear you, being, you and I being the same generation, and so on.
Yes. Anytime I hear that someone is on pain pills, I just, if I have any input, and they're open to
hearing me, I tell them to just take them as long as, only as long as they need them, and then
throw them away. That's my own personal opinion, because I feel they're very dangerous.
Yeah, yeah. So finally, she sent you to the neurologist, huh?
Yes. And she did, she ordered a brain scan, and she prescribed me another triptan. I went through
various migraine medications to find one that would work for me. I've done injectables. I've
gone through the different medications to see what would work. And not only that, just trying to go
through the insurance hoops is difficult. Oh, boy. Yeah. Now, were you taking, so were you
on Fioricet when you went to the neurologist? Were you taking that daily?
No. So I had, almost like an awakening moment. My father was ill. He was, he had cancer. And I just
realized this was, I was a little short of 40 years old. And I realized my father needed
pain medication. I didn't. And I just, it was like I had an eye opening moment. And from that moment
on, I just stopped. I stopped taking the pain pills. And I would, I would take, I remember
taking Excedrin migraine and Mountain Dew, you know, things that I had heard other people talk
about, or things that I had read on the internet, just kind of white knuckling through. But from
that time on, and it's been 14 years now that I haven't been on pain medication and I thank God
every day. Wow. Wow. So did a cold turkey withdrawal? Yes. Wow. You really must have
had an awakening moment to be able to get through that. That is brutal. It's a hard time. Someone
else is not well. But then, yeah, that was my moment. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good for you. Good for
you. Thank you. So prior, so, you know, you were able to come off of the Fiorissette and then your
primary care doctor was sort of cobbling together different things for you. And finally she said,
I got to send you to the neurologist. I can't. Yeah. And I think I even just stopped. I might
have seen the primary care physician and she would just prescribe me a Triptan and I would
use that Triptan, but I would rely on, you know, Excedrin migraine, or I would just, I kind of
just realized this was how it was going to be. And I just had to deal with it and the medication was
going to work or it wasn't. And at the end of the day, what I really needed to do was just lay down
in a dark room and fall asleep. So during that time, I was really just taking Excedrin, a Triptan,
but I wasn't relying on my primary care doctor too much. But then when I did go to the neurologist,
that's when she started prescribing and trying to pinpoint medications that would work for me.
And that was a process, just trying to find one that would work. And like I said, I've done
injectables. I've done so many different migraine medications. I was getting Botox injections. And
aside from that, I've done other things like I've done hypnosis and craniosacral therapy,
acupuncture. I've tried topical. I have pink tinted glasses. So I have just tried everything.
Oh my goodness. And yeah, when you reached out, I mean, you were basically kind of where you were
at even before the neurologist. You were rotating between Triptans and Excedrin. Yes. Yes.
So all those medications, unfortunately for you, or you could say fortunately for you in some sense,
they couldn't find anything that worked. Yeah, nothing was working. Yeah. Honestly,
even the Botox really didn't help. I mean, what was your typical day to day?
My typical day to day was going into work. Sometimes I would feel a little headache
when I was getting out of bed and I would think, Oh no, it's going to be one of those days.
I would get to work, have a little bit of a headache and kind of know that later in the
morning or early afternoon, I would be in a lot of pain. And that was usually the case.
Late morning would come around and I just knew it was going to be pounding soon. And sure enough,
after lunch, I would say three or four days out of the work week, I would have a pounding headache
by one. And it was at that point where I would take something like the Excedrin or the Triptan.
I would lay down at lunch in my car. So I would sit in my driver's seat, push back the seat,
and set my alarm for 30 minutes. That's my lunch time and just hope and pray that I could
at least fall asleep for a short amount of time so that maybe I'd feel a little relief that way.
And then sometimes it would feel better when I would go back in the office after lunch and
sometimes it wouldn't. Sometimes it would creep back. And then I knew that when I got home,
I just wanted to go lay down. And that was my evening. And sometimes, yeah, sometimes
I would just lay on the couch and cover my eyes and hope that I could fall asleep so that it would
go away. Oh my goodness. What an ordeal. It's taking me back to my days where I would stagger
home from work and collapse on the couch and I would have to do the same thing. It's like
I just got up, waited out until bedtime, go to sleep, hope for a better day the next day.
Yes. And then there's the sick. So when the days come where you just know I've had mornings where
I have the aura, I can tell right away that it's not going to be a good day and I have to call in
sick. And that's a stress that you have to call in sick. And maybe you're calling in sick more than
the organization would like. That's extremely stressful. Yeah, definitely. Oh my goodness.
And you know, you and I both live in Chicago to sit in your car. There's very few days during
the year here where you're going to sit in your car comfortably. Exactly. Very true.
So I mean on top of it, I can't imagine in January on my lunch hour going out to my car. Oh my
goodness. What an ordeal. Or in August, I mean. Yes. And the heat seems to make mine worse.
So sitting in my car on a hot summer day isn't giving me the relief I need.
Oh my goodness. So all of that. How did you find me? And what made you reach out? I mean,
what gave you the hope, the courage that maybe this could change after having this for so long
and going through all of this? I mean, I appreciate how much you are suffering.
Well, natural means have always kind of appealed to me. And I think I was just browsing the internet
one day and I happened upon your podcast and I listened to it daily. I listened to every podcast
you had. I joined your group and I thought, well, I've done all these things. This is kind of the
only thing I haven't tried. I just, when I talked to you on the phone, I felt very comfortable.
And that's what helped me make my decision.
So I did you take the leap, huh?
Yes, I decided to take the leap and I'm so glad I did.
What has it been like, you know, this is even though we probably only live a half hour from
each other. We've done everything over the phone. What has it been like?
It's been wonderful. So I've been meeting with you weekly and I've been meeting with you
for about four months and you are my support. You're my support system. Nobody else has really
understand what I'm going through or what I've gone through, but you do. And I remember when
we first started, you told me that I didn't have to worry anymore that you could, I could let you
take the lead. And that really spoke volumes to me because like I said, I've been white knuckling
it. You know, the sight, the daily habits I have, I'm constantly questioning myself and to finally
hand over the reins and just let you guide me was something I've never had before at all in my life.
So that was extremely comforting and I thank you. Well, I think when you're suffering, like you were
suffering, you know, we had our last weekly appointment this week and we went through that
appointment with that I have with my clients where we're kind of wrapping up our weekly work together.
I like to go through, you know, where were your symptoms when we started four months ago and what
were they telling us? What were the symptoms telling us? And where are your symptoms now? And
what does that tell us? And everything, you know, for those listeners that have been listening to the
podcast, I talk about the three things that our body needs, what I call the three principles.
If we give our body what it needs within those three principles, those three areas, the body will
start to feel better, it'll start to restore itself back to health. So the first step for all of my
clients is, you know, the first thing that we did with you, we built what I call your migraine map
and we flushed out all of the symptoms that you've been experiencing over the years and particularly
the symptoms you were experiencing within the past month, you know, starting our work together.
And I said, oh, you know, let me pull up your migraine map and let's go through it. And you
said, oh, I want to pull up mine too. Let me get mine up too. And I didn't remember how many symptoms
you had four months ago. When I pulled up that report, I was like, oh my yeah, boy, Jean,
you had a whole page and a half of symptoms four months ago. And stomach issues are something that
I've been dealing with for many years. And you helped me through that too. So it's, it's, it is,
you, you went over things that helped my the headaches that I get, but it also helped my
stomach. And I know other other things that that were ailing me as well. Yeah. And I think this is
this is an important thing that I try to get across everybody that I work with. The main thing is
like, get my migraines gone. Right. But everybody also has other symptoms too. And those symptoms
are also giving us clues. So, you know, when we were going through everything this week,
I got hit again, like far, you know, how far you've come, how many symptoms you're not experiencing
anymore after four months. And, you know, when we first started working together, you, you were
averaging like 23 head pain days a month. Yeah. I mean, that's like seven days out of the month
where you had a shot at not having head pain. It's, it's, it's not a good way to live. It's
definitely not. Yeah. And tell us what, you know, how are you feeling now four months later?
I feel so much better. I'm not having to go to my car at lunch and lay down. I'm not having to lay
down after work. Do it's, it's great priest, the, the frequency, not having to put medications in
my body that I just know only the medications just made me feel icky. So I don't, I don't have to put
medications in my body that I don't like to take. I'm not having to have needles injected into my
head anymore. That was never pleasant. And it's just, it's, it's life changing. Really. I think
about all the times that, you know, when my children were little, I would go apple pick with my kids
or strawberry picking. And I remember several times not feeling good, but I kind of, I made
myself go because I wanted to make something fun for them. But yeah, just not having to lay down
during my lunch hour to be able to do other things during that time, not having to lay down after
work. It's just, it's truly life changing, truly. And you were, you were rotating between your
Excedrin and your Trypton medication. And I think, I think recently you did have a bad flare where
you needed to take your Trypton, but I think you had gone what, six weeks. Yes. Prior to that. Yes.
Before, you know, between Trypton doses. Right. And right now you're having about
one head pain day a week, would you say? Would you say that's about where you're at now? I would
say so. Yes. And ibuprofen is taking care of that, which I never thought I would be able to say that
ibuprofen helped alleviate a headache. Right. A lot of, a lot of migraine
sufferers, if you tell them to take Advil, they get mad at you. Right. Yeah. That's like a meme
in the migraine world. Right. Like don't tell me to take Advil. Yeah. But when we can get the
severity down, then Advil can actually give people some relief. Then you're, you're taking something.
Obviously people, you know, you know, you want to get to the point where you're not having head pain
and you don't have to take Advil, obviously. But the side effects of Advil for the vast majority
of people are going to be significantly less than the side effects of Tryptons and even Excedrin.
The rebound potential, if you're taking, if you can take Advil is tremendously lower than
Excedrin for sure. And definitely Tryptons. And you don't have that classic hit by the bus Trypton hangover
that most people feel. Exactly. And so yeah, if we can get the severity down where you can take
an Advil dose and that's it. You're feeling better. You're not having to take your lunch
break in your car, collapsing on the couch when you get home from work. Oh my goodness.
Yes, it's amazing. Like I said, I've never thought that I'd be able to take ibuprofen
and that take the headache away. And then you're feeling better overall as well. How are you
feeling as a whole person? Yes, I feel really good. My energy is so much better than it has
been in a long time. And my stomach, I mentioned that I have some stomach issues, I guess.
That has gotten so much better in following your plan. It's amazing. And I'm just so grateful and
thankful that having the head pain diminished and my stomach feeling better is just, it's a
game changer for me. So better energy. Tommy feels better. Head feels better. What are you
looking forward to in the future? Oh my gosh. So both my kids live out of state, but I'm looking
forward to visiting them where they live and not worrying that I'm going to get a headache.
Knowing that I have the tools now to feel good while I'm with them and do things with them.
And also spending quality time with my husband and not worrying that I'm not going to feel well.
Yeah, I mean the amount of hiding we do, right? Husband wants to go have a nice day, right? But
do you really want to tell them you're not feeling well and put a damper on the whole thing?
Yeah, I would, it just got to the point where I was having head pain so frequently that
I didn't even want to tell anybody because it was just like I was like a broken record. I
sounded like a broken record, if anybody knows what a record is. But yeah, I would just hide it
most of the time and do the best I could. Now I don't. I went on two trips while I was working
with you, Dr. Leslie. And I felt really good. And in the past, I would have severe head pain,
migraine while I was traveling. And I took those two trips and I had no head pain.
Yeah, I love it when I have clients that are going to take trips. Because a lot of people
are like, oh, I don't want to work with you until I get my trip over with. I come back from the
cruise. It's like, well, if we get started now, you could feel better on the cruise, right? And
then I'm here to support you too through the trip. Yes, the support is just, I can't say enough about
the support that you give because you truly were there for me when I needed you, you were there.
And you're still getting head pain. And this is also, I think, what we want to be clear with
for someone to go from 23 head pain days a month to one head pain day a week in four months.
It's significant, obviously. What if you had one head pain day a month? What if you had one head
pain day every quarter? And I think as your body continues to heal, I think we've got you on a very
good game plan. Part of the process for me is figuring out, okay, exactly what's going to be
the best solution for Jean, not the best solution for me or another client, but what's going to be
the best solution for your body to address these deficiencies or blockers within those three
principles that our body needs to function well. We've got you on a good game plan. And I feel very
confident that you continue to sort of run that game plan. You're going to continue to feel better.
Yes. And that's also, I love that it's so individualized. It was just for me
at the beginning when we did my MAP, it was about every single symptom I had, my lifestyle,
everything. And our plan was totally individualized to me. And you made the treatment just for me.
And if I follow it, I know, I notice how much better I feel when I follow it.
And you know, you're a human being. I'm a human being. Sometimes we kind of miss the mark a little
bit. We might not quite, boy, these donuts look really good. Let me have a couple instead of a
bite. And then you started getting some feedback from your body. When you did do something that
wasn't health supporting, I'm using diet as an example because people can relate to it. But you
know, there are other things that can be health supporting or not so health supporting. And as we
start to feel better, we can actually sort of perceive that feedback from the body like, oh,
I did something that wasn't that health supporting. Now I'm feeling it versus if I'm feeling bad all
the time, how would I be able to tell what my body is trying to tell me the signals of my body
is trying to send me. I agree 100%. And there's something that I love about that. It's almost like
I know when I do something, and then I get a headache, that it's that's a cause and effect.
So I know what to work. And that alone is just really exciting to be able to make changes
where before I didn't know I didn't even know where to begin, I would start with food.
You know, I would try to change my sleeping schedule. But I just didn't know what was causing
the head pain. But now it's much more clear. And this is different than what we call triggers in
the migraine world, right? Because we're always talking about all the weather, the sun, the heat,
those are the things that we don't have control over. Those are stressors that are sort of tipping
us into our migraines zone versus things that we are doing that are not health supporting that
are sort of undermining our body within those three principles. That's not a trigger, per se,
it's doing something that's having an impact on your health, having an impact on your body.
And when you kind of this is part of the thing that I think we achieved with you is definitely
a goal that I like to achieve with all my clients, you start to learn what's what's health supporting,
you know, and if I do something that's health supporting for me, how do I feel? Do I feel a
little bit better, right? If you're getting that positive feedback that you can build on, like you
say, I can build on something, I'm not paranoid about the sunlight and the heat and the weather,
it's not a paranoia. It's actually like I'm getting valuable feedback, valuable information
that I can act on and I have some control now. Yes, and I think that ties into to the when you
about vitality and the needle pointing north and when it starts to go a little to the left to
to west. I think about that too. And what is health supporting what's keeping my vitality up
and what have I done that has kind of reduced my vitality that that that helps.
And are you starting to feel a little bit more confident sort of other thing that we need to
recover from is like that migraine paranoia, right? You know, can I can I book the trip? I,
you know, am I going to be there at work on that big day with a big meeting? Are you starting to
feel a little bit more confident? Yes, because I know if I follow, if I do things that are health
supporting, I know for a fact I'm going to feel good on those days when I really need to step up
and be there. Well, good. I'm so happy for you, Jean, you you have worked hard and you're getting
the benefit of that work. Thank you for feeling the benefit of it. Thank you. Like I said, I can't
thank you enough. I'm very glad that I, I chose to do this with you. I was kind of on the fence
for a little while, but it is absolutely one of the best decisions I've made in a long time.
And I do want to just say that if Dr. Leslie says she can help you, she can help you.
She'll let you know if she can't, but she told me she could help me and she did.
Well, Jean, thanks so much for joining us today. I know a lot of women are really going to relate
to to your story and self. You never gave up on yourself. You've you've throughout all of this,
you've cared enough about yourself to pull Turkey off your set and to keep keep trying to to give
your body what it needs. Thank you. All right. Well, thanks everyone for joining us today.
