129. How Jody Went From 28 Migraines a Month to Real Freedom

In this episode, I sit down with Jody to talk about what life was like when she was dealing with 15 to 28 migraines a month, daily headaches, dizziness, nausea, and overwhelming sensitivity to light, noise, and smells.

She shares the long list of things she had already tried, from Mayo Clinic and Duke to Botox, triptans, Topamax, Ajovy, specialists, and countless other treatments, before she found a different path. We talk about what changed, what healing looked like for her in real life, and how she went from spending days in a dark room to building a successful baking business and getting her energy, confidence, and freedom back.

If you’re ready to address the root drivers of your migraines, you can book a free consultation at the link below:

https://www.drlesliecisar.com/apply

Free Training: 5 Proven Steps to Being Migraine Free (Even if you think you've already tried everything.)

https://www.drlesliecisar.com/5SHMN

Connect with us:

Website: https://www.drlesliecisar.com/

Free Facebook Group: Healing Migraines Naturally, with Leslie Cisar, ND

Ready to try something radically different that actually works? Read more about my approach here: https://www.drlesliecisar.com/map

In health,
Dr. Leslie Cisar

Episode Transcript

hi there
welcome to the Healing Migraines Naturally podcast
I'm your host Doctor Leslie Caesar
and I'm a licensed naturopathic doctor
former chronic migraine sufferer
and I help women all over the country
rediscover a migraine free life
and today I'm so happy to welcome Jody to the podcast
and she's gonna share her healing story
and recovery from chronic migraines
welcome Jodie how are you
good thank you
Doctor Leslie how are you doing
good good
thanks for joining me on the podcast
yeah thank you for inviting me I appreciate it
and so tell me kind of if you can
kind of give the listeners
a little bit
of an understanding of what your migraines were like
they were pretty brutal
yes um
I had chronic migraines is
with anywhere from 15 to 28 a month
28 was my my worst
but I also just had daily headaches
just every day waking up with a headache
headache all day long nausea
dizziness lightheadedness
light sensitivity
smell noise
yeah yeah
and you you ticked all the boxes on the common uh
common sensitivities there right
I mean it's pretty brutal to have all of them
it's a land land mine uh
minefield uh
to walk through every day
and what had your doctors been doing for you
in the face of all of this
um I had been everywhere from the Mayo Clinic
I went to Duke a few times
I'd seen neuro aunties um
ophthalmologists
everybody just trying to figure out what was wrong
and I was went to allergist um
because I always had watery eyes and runny noses
I was on I don't even remember how many medications
I think I had even backed off of a few
right before we started working together
three or four allergy medications
preventatives
lots of lots of uh
trip tens that I would take and Botox
I had done things like
having balloons shoved up my noses
to try to and try to do adjustments
like just nobody could figure out what was
what was going on or why
I also had some gut issues too
that I was taking lots of medication for
yeah yeah
and so how many years was it
how many years was this going on for
it I mean
it really started when I was in high school
I had a lot of really bad headaches
I didn't know what they were
and then when I was pregnant and I would just have
I think
my mother finally told me I was having a migraine
when I had the aura and kind of lost my
my vision in my early 20s
but since 2,011 it just
it hit and became a daily
just constant headaches that wouldn't go away
yeah and
you know how
how did you how did you find me right
cause I'm I'm outside of Chicago
you are across the country
how did how did you find me
it's crazy because my husband was in the military
so we lived on the East Coast
I had seen so many doctors and neurologist up and down
and then we moved back home in Montana
and then
it was probably my fourth or fifth day in my room
dark curtains no noises
I couldn't smell anything
I couldn't take anything I was snacking on Cheez its
like that's all I was eating
and I just knew I always knew there had to be something
just some root cause of why this was happening to me
I just didn't think that this was it for me
I mean I was trying to just comfort myself and say
this is it for me and I don't
that's not very comforting
but that's just I guess I was trying to face it like
and then I was just trying to find a podcast
you get kind of lonely and bored
even with head pain in your room for four days
so I came across your podcast
and I was literally in tears listening to them
as I resonated with everything that you were saying
and just knew I had to reach out
wow
so you know
I think this is very common
you when
when you're in the throes of a migraine
you know
sometimes it can get so bad that you're literally
you know you're
you can't do anything but just sort of ride around or
you know just stay as still as possible
but I think usually right
we're doing something we're
you know doing a Sudoku on the phone or
you know Instagram reels like something right
just to pass the time right
as we're alone I
I can just you know
I can just picture you there
alone in a room for four days
as your family is you know
downstairs and life life is moving on right
the clock keeps ticking
uh so you
you did this crazy thing of
reach out to someone that wasn't local to you
that you had never met I mean what
what was that like for you
it was a little kind of I don't know just like
ugh who who am I
who am I calling
um yeah
just the unknown but I also just knew
I had to take a chance on something else like
you know I was tired of the Botox
even I was getting they were increasing them
I think I was getting 36 to 38 injections in my head
and nothing was nothing was getting any better
and so if anything it was just getting worse
so I just was like
there's got to be something else and um
yeah I'm just I'm
I'm a praying woman and so I just was praying like this
this can't be it for me
so I'm gonna I'm just gonna take a shot
uh huh
and we started working together
tell me um
you know what were your
what were your fears
when we first started working together
I think the biggest one was that
it either wasn't gonna work
or one of my daughters had told me that um
she's like what if it's another placebo
like we kind of just started joking
like just so many of these other medications
some of the new things like a Jovi and stuff
like I would take her a few months
and it kind of worked and then it just stopped
and um kind of
like what you've talked about in some of your podcast
it just finds its way through it finds its way around
and so I was like maybe it's only gonna work for a
little while but I also just knew
from the things that you were talking about
that there's there's
I don't know I just felt like there's gonna be a root
a root reason
a root cause for this and we'll get down to it
so I just still was hanging on to some hope
uh huh uh huh
and so the hope and never really giving up on yourself
it sounds like what
gave you the courage to move forward
and do this sort of crazy thing
yeah yeah
of working with someone
that is not face to face with you right
right right
yeah it was
I was afraid it was gonna be a little awkward too
but you just you made it so comfortable and so yeah
and eased
eased all of my fears through for at that part of it
good good
and what um
what was it like you know
because like I I try to communicate on the podcast
we have to restore our health right
you know we're getting the migraines
because our body is not in a state of health and
you know
just taking butterbur or magnesium or B vitamins it
it doesn't actually restore the health
and restoring the health it's
it's usually it's usually no joke
it's usually
you know all my clients are gonna find something hard
in the process and what's hard for one
person is gonna be easy for another right
but um
there's gonna be something surprising uh
something challenging something difficult what
what was it like for you to do something
you know
radically different from what you had been doing
which was actually
doing what you needed to do to restore your health
I think I'm probably one of the
kind of one of the odd balls where
you know
I know you wanted me to wean off some of my stuff
carefully and
and speak to my but there were times where I just
I cut myself off at Topamax
I knew my neurologist I felt
I was afraid to tell them
I didn't want to take that anymore
so I kind of googled some stuff and
and took myself off of it
so you know
I just kind of stopped some of my medications
just told my neurologist
I wasn't coming back in for Botox anymore
I just
uh huh
I had a little more excitement of trying something new
and different
that wasn't all these Band Aids being injected into me
pills and so
but it was it was different
the like the eating that for me um
was a little bit hard
I think that some of those things were hard
because I was so nauseous
and couldn't really stomach anything
more than than Cheez its when we when we first started
so I think just
just kind of
wrapping my head around all the three principles
and just putting all of that together
I think was just a whole new
a whole new ball game that I just had to adapt to
and really work through and figure out
but
I can't really remember one thing that was super hard
for me I think I was
I was excited I just
I had so much hope that this was gonna work
so I'm probably not a good one for that
and what um
what uh
what have been some of your biggest takeaways
definitely just it's been
I feel like I have Learned so much from you um
you're a great teacher explaining things
the thoroughness of of the
why a lot of things are happening
and just being able to support my
my body a lot of times when I go to eat something
or I'm just too fatigued or tired
and I'm like oh
I don't wanna cut the vegetables or whatever um
I just I hear your voice like
is this gonna be supportive to my health
like
so kind of across the board a lot of things is just
that's kind of the key
um the key thing that just plays in the back of my head
is this gonna be supportive to my health
and so honestly I think that's probably it ha ha
uh huh
uh huh and what's um
what has surprised you the most
going through this process of restoring your health and
and feeling better
I think that
it works like I'm just I'm feeling so much better
I'm an emotional person
so I try not to cry even talking about this
but it's just been
amazing for me to be off of all medications um
just a little bit of ibuprofen if I need to get
work through some head pain
feeling
just so much energy and and alive again
so it's just it's been a whole
a whole circle completeness of
of a healing journey for me and so I'm yeah
try not to get too crazy emotional but um yeah
it's just been the recovery has been surprising how
how much it's sticking
yeah
we started working together not quite two years ago
it was in the fall of 2024
uh huh
so if it were placebo you'd be long past the ha ha ha
the placebo stage
right right yeah
and it's
it's been I'm kind of my body has been stubborn
so I've had to work through a lot of a lot of things
but you know I'm not dizzy every day
I don't have head pain every day the lightheadedness
it's it'll
it'll peak peak through every once in a while
but and not having to wear glasses
I think has been
sounds crazy
when I've had all those migraines and stuff
but that's been life changing for me
to not feel like the weirdo
wearing dark glasses inside the stores every day and
and people are starting to notice
cause that's finally getting
getting better and I'm feeling normal like
so yeah
and um
do you wanna talk about your business at all and
and your ability to to do your business
it's up to you
but that's a fun I
that's a fun little thing
yeah I um
I've always been kind of a hobby
hobby doing little hobby cakes and stuff for a bakery
and I was able to find the energy and um
the confidence that I'm not gonna
have some migraine that's gonna knock me down
and maybe I will maybe I won't but it's
but the confidence is there
because I've had so many days and so many wins of
my healing and so being I guess like um
when we talked about having like the winds each day
from all of I just had so many symptoms
so every day there was there was something but anyway
so I started the the small business
and it's been going
so much busier
and so much bigger than I had ever expected or
or imagined like very quickly
and to have the energy to
I have days where I'm
standing all day long in my kitchen
and baking and decorating
and taking in all these orders um
being out at markets I'm very much a people person
so I enjoy being around people so for me
those migraines those knockout migraines
I just always had that FOMO
I just wanted to be where everybody was and so
being in your dark room is
it's just not that was so isolating and
and hard emotionally and mentally
but I'm just really enjoying life now working
so much more than I thought I could and ever could
yeah it's just been it's been amazing
I just you know
last summer when you started doing the
the farmers markets with your
with your treats and it was such a uh
such a thrill for me to hear you talk about
you know preparing to go to the market which
you know I go to farmers markets as a customer
and I I have some appreciation of
how much work it must be to make all these cakes
and brownies and cookies and everything else
but certainly you know
I'm just I'm just a customer
so hearing you talk about
all of the baking that you would do
to get ready for you know
this week's farmers market
and then hearing about how you sold out
and everybody was lined up and
you know are you going to be back next week
and it was so so wonderful for me to hear that I was so
so happy for you you're gonna make me tear up here haha
um but you know
you when you talk about your baking
you light up so much
and I've never had one of your treats
but from what you tell me I I fully believe it
they're spectacular
the way that you talk about it
and just
when you would share the feedback from the customers
how the customers were just
you know couldn't stop eating them or you know
they got in trouble you know
cause they ate too many or you know
whatever the the little stories were
that your customers would come back to you
it it just made me so so thrilled and so
so happy for you because this is something
that you have such a talent for
and such a gift for and it brings you so much joy
and it brings
other people so much joy to eat these wonderful uh
treats
and I was just so happy that you were able to you know
you're feeling well enough
um after less than a year at that time
it was less than a year
coming from where you had been with
you know daily head pain days in a row in a dark room
there's no way somebody would take on
that level of commitment to
to do a weekly farmers market all summer with
with that type of head pain
I mean there's no way you could do it
and you know
like yesterday was oh
80 some degrees
so being out there in the heat and all the grass and
yeah and just all that
the work and the effort that it took to get there
I had some repeat customers
who have come back every week for
for my cookie butter cake and um
since last summer and so I
I don't know how it came up
but I started to kind of
tell them a little bit about my story
and about how I met you
and they were just like amazed and
and um
didn't even know that I was suffering that much before
cause I'm just it's just a different
I'm a different person it's a different life
and I'm enjoying my life
and making these dreams come true
instead of laying in bed
dreaming about them or fantasizing about them but
and it's just
the healing is a reality now for me
and it's just I can't thank you enough for that
well it's been my pleasure
and I think you know the
you know
I work with so many women like yourself that are really
really suffering right
I mean
it's bad enough to have a couple migraines a year
that's horrible enough um
but to have this level of constant head pain
you know you had other symptoms too
that you touched on a little bit
but you know um
you know other symptoms as well
clearly
the migraines were overwhelmingly causing you suffering
um and
you know it's to
to come out of that it's
it's possible you're
you're not taking any medication other than Advil
occasionally right now
what do you need to maybe you need a little Advil
maybe twice a month or something like that right now
is that fair
yeah maybe ha ha ha ha
if that yeah
yeah
so to go from all of those preventative medications
all of the abortive medications
I mean if
if I remember
you were on a lot of anti nausea medication
cause the nausea was so severe that you were having
you know just
you know you
I I just want people to know that
you can come out of that it's definitely possible um
but it does take you know
you and I when we started working together it was like
okay okay Jody
we're gonna have you do this minute
little thing this week hahaha
this tiny tiny little change right
hahaha and and you I had you eating Cheez its right
cause you were like I can only eat Cheez its I was like
keep eating the Cheez its
we gotta get some food in here
you know cause you could hardly eat anything
you were so nauseous and you were like
I can only eat Cheez its so it's like
yep we're gonna work with the Cheez its
we're gonna leverage the Cheez its right
so it's like making small changes building up
like you say on what I call the three principles
the three fundamental things that the body needs
in order to function properly
but very carefully you know
figuring out exactly what you needed
and how we were gonna make that happen right
cause you you could hardly do anything right
you know
chopping a vegetable you're a oh my goodness right
so it's like what can you do that's possible for you
what can we leverage
with what you're already able to do
and do it in a way where you're not feeling even worse
than you already are
and we just keep taking those steps 1 you know
sometimes at the beginning
it's just one little baby step forward
forward forward and and less than a year later
you're making cookie butter
ha ha ha cookie butter
I know those were like your big seller last summer
the cookie butter
the stuffed cookies with the cookie butter
I mean it sounds fantastic
yeah yes
it was it
you know it seems like it was a year
but um
which seems like a long time
but also it's it's flown by and
and it didn't take a year to at least get feeling
really you know
better where yeah
we went from cheeses to adding broth to
to then adding a little bit of noodle
like it was it was the
a lot of slow
slow steps but it was just the support from you was
I guess if anything
back to like the surprising
that was surprising just
just the amount of support from you
the one on one
the understanding and the wisdom that you had
and the knowledge to
to get me another woman through this
has just been
far different from any other care that's out there
yeah yeah
this is this is what it takes
and unfortunately
a lot of practitioners either haven't realized it
or they don't think that they can provide
that level of care but it's
it's a level of care that's required
when somebody is suffering at this level
yeah
yes yeah for sure
so we've got the sunglasses off um
and I I love this
since I have so many clients right there
wearing sunglasses indoors
I love it when people could take the sunglasses off
it's such a win
oh it's just
I don't know you know
it's just one of those things that just makes you
I mean migraines themselves are so isolating
and then you just you have to add these other things
for all of your symptoms I mean
I carried around little lemon essential oil
so I could hold it up to my nose
while talking to people so I'm not offending them
like you smell so bad I can't take it
but so I would do anything to cover smells
like rubbing it under my nostrils
the vision yeah
it just everything from I even
drove through
we have a really rigid just high pass here in Montana
and I didn't get car sick
and I was in the back seat and I was like
I'm gonna give this a go a little bit and
yeah it was just everything
just all these little improvements
so that was my
my recent win I didn't get to tell you about
but yeah I drove in the back seat on a windy road up
high elevation low elevation
and
I did not get sick or a migraine or anything from it
oh
I'm sure but yeah it's just been it's been amazing
I completely forgot you had that symptom
but now I'm remembering I remember hahaha
yeah
I remember now when we first started working together
you had a trip
I I think it was with your girls
you guys were going somewhere
and you would get horrible car sickness and migraines
and I remember
it was pretty soon after we started working together
and you said I'm gonna go on this trip
and I remember thinking okay
we're gonna get her there
ha ha ha
she's probably gonna feel terrible because we really
you know we're don't have a lot of healing yet
you know
her resilience and vitality isn't very high yet
and I was like alright
we're gonna get her on this trip
we're gonna get her there and we'll get her back
and then we'll get her patched
up but we're gonna get her on this trip hahaha
we're not gonna have her miss her time with that
with her girls hahaha
yeah
and I still remember having my little bag of of goodies
uh huh
mmm hmm yeah
and I didn't bring any of that this week haha
you didn't bring anything at all
yeah
in case somebody else gets a headache
or I do or whatever
oh wow wow
yeah
and my one brother kept looking at me and he's like
do you how's your head are you okay
are you not sick
they're like why aren't you throwing up
and you're like what are you talking about
I don't get sick in the car right
mmm hmm
well this is actually
this is actually an interesting topic because right
it's like
we develop the post traumatic migraine anxiety right
I definitely went through that
and had to recover from that right
it's like uh oh
the sun the this the that what if I get a migraine
what what's gonna happen you know
do I need to bring my kit
you know my migraine kit do I have everything stocked
what's that what's that been like for you
kind of recovering from that
it sounds like this trip you didn't have a lot of that
yeah um
I think it was baby steps
um I don't remember how far
along we were working together
before I started throwing away all of the
the tryptans and and all of that stuff
and then just still keeping the cheeses in the car
and my ibuprofen in my purse
in the car a lot of the snack stuff
cause I still um
was working on being able to eat enough at each meal
to not feel like oh
what if I need a snack
what if I'm stuck or I don't have my water
so um
yeah so then I
I've gotten down to just having some ibuprofen
just in case and I don't know I
I left and I forgot I've kind of just forgot things
and I think
usually I'll bring a like
a little can of coke with me
just in case my head starts hurting
because that
that really helps me when I have some head pain
and
I didn't even think about bringing any of it this time
and then I looking back
I was like that was
that was weird but I think that's just
just telling of
of how much better I'm feeling and I don't
I don't need that stuff anymore
oh
isn't it nice not to have that in the back of your mind
hahaha
yeah it's just been
amazing and um
one more thing that I forgot to mention earlier
like I always had that that
um really bad neck pain where I went to chiropractors
PT's um
and that's where I was going to get NCR treatments
where they were shoving balloons in my nose
and went to orthopedic surgeon
he didn't want to quite do surgery on me yet
but recommended shots and I almost got shots
but I look at all of those side effects
I'm like I don't want this
just somebody fix me and find out what's wrong with me
so I almost was going to start getting injections
in my neck
but after working with you and the migraines got better
I don't have any neck pain anymore either like
so it's just this whole body um
healing that I don't know it
it's it's just very
very amazing for me and and exciting
and
it's just a huge answered prayer for me
to have all of this there was so many
I mean it would take me five minutes
to probably list all of the symptoms
and things I was having daily
but so yeah we can be healed naturally it's amazing
oh thank God
yes
yes
what are you looking forward to now
what what are what are some of your uh
future plans
either for your business or with your girls
what are you looking forward to
um yeah
I'm looking at uh
growth in my business I've
I've kind of hit a ceiling of what I can do in my home
so I've started kind of looking into
do I wanna expand and and go get a brick and mortar or
or something different so that's kind of something I'm
I'm I'm just excited that I feel
well enough to where that is an option for me um
some travel and not being worried about getting sick
and a migraine is just getting getting somewhere and
you know I went to my nephew's wedding and last week
and I danced the entire night
and some of my friends and people were like
how do you have the I mean
I'm 50 now too and so they're like the energy
Bos never used 51bce0c785ca2f68081bfa7d919
and I'm just looking forward to having
living life again so and
and it's just amazing and I just yeah
I I really cannot thank you enough
Doctor Leslie and I just share
share this with everyone and um
you know the people I was speaking to yesterday
he just had to he shook my hand
he's like this is amazing
and I'm he's like
I hope more people hear about this
and they were interested of
I think they're gonna find your podcast
and just I tell everyone
oh well that's so sweet of you thank you
yeah I just want
I hope more women can find you
and it doesn't take being on a near death bed of just
oh boy oh
I tell you I tell you no
that that's why I do the podcast
you know
even if even if no one you know reaches out to me
at least they're
my my hope is that they're learning something
and they're getting the actual truth about
you know what
what is generating symptoms what does symptoms mean
uh you know
what are the underlying deficiencies or
or blockers um
and how does that correlate to the symptoms
that they're experiencing because unfortunately
you know
I'm actually working up a podcast that I wanna
record on this this weekend
you know right now
everybody is talking about like
the pharmaceutical industry is trying to kill us
you know they're trying to kill us
they're trying to keep us sick and stuck and so on and
and it's worse than that I
I I wish that were the case
I wish it were like a conspiracy of some
you know some men in a back room
you know twirling a mustache and smoking cigars
and creating and drafting this like
conscious conspiracy to keep people sick
it's it's much deeper than that
we have been told you know
you and I are basically you know
the same age very close in age
same generation and we've always been told that if
if you have a migraine well
you know you have a
my now you're told you have a migraine brain
we don't know what happened
how this happened
it's just something you're gonna have to live with
try to come to terms with it
this is you know
what you were trying to do
cause I'm sure many people
well meaning practitioners told you just
try to make peace
with the fact that you're going to be laying in a dark
room for four days at a time
just try to make peace with it
if we think that's true then
it makes rational sense to inject people with Botox
and steroids in their neck
and anti nausea medication and
you know abortive medication and Topamax
it makes logical sense
right it's
it's not this like evil conspiracy
it's what we think is true
but it's false that's that's even worse
right right
yeah
and you know
you unfortunately
you went to all the top clinics
you went to you know
you were up and down the eastern Seaboard
where all the top places are and
they had a false
understanding of what was driving your head pain so
hey
from there everything flowed
and you ended up in bed totally debilitated
yeah and yeah
and they were running out of running out of things
so it was really not much more to give me or to try and
no yeah
when we did your migraine map
I mean you had taken
the amount of medication you were taking at the time
was tremendous but I mean
you had
literally been given every single available medication
yeah
and not not because they were trying to hurt you
they were they were legitimately trying to help you
yeah mmm hmm
I even one of the doctors that I saw like I
I feel like he knew it was wrong
like just the way he would
would ask me do you still wanna keep trying this
like he couldn't
he didn't know what else to say or how to help me
and then I told him
I was gonna start working with an naturopathic doctor
and and he seemed to genuinely
hope that I would get better and wished me well
and was like I really hope he's like
I can't help you with that with that kind of a
of a path but you know
he's like I really hope it works for you
cause he just knew how
how bad it was and how badly I was feeling but
but he just didn't know or and I think
you know listening to some of your stuff
is just out of his hands really for what he could do
yeah yeah
well you got me on my soapbox here
um which is not uncommon
I easily step onto my soapbox
um but um
I'm just so so happy for you
just I'm so happy for you
and I just love to hear all
all of the wins that you have
you know
whether it's taking a car trip and feeling well or your
you know phenomenal week at the farmers market
and all your orders coming in um
and some of the places you've gone to deliver
some fabulous cakes
I just love to hear all of those things
and I'm
I just can't wait to see what else happens for you here
yes I'm
I'm super excited and I'm just so thankful so thankful
well very good
anything else that you'd wanna say to uh
a woman that gosh
I mean is there a woman listening to this right now
that's laying in bed for you know
the second third
fourth day in a row
trying to pass the time on her phone
yeah uh
I just remember being that woman and yeah
I just I just really hope that they just
they take it sounds like a risk but it's just um
for me now knowing you know what we've been through
it wasn't a risk
it was it was an answer and when you're suffering
you're just looking for answers and I just
it's just my hope and prayer that they
they take the have the courage to just reach out to you
um
you know it's just like our first conversation was um
it was very it was comfortable
it was easy it wasn't scary um
it it was just comforting to talk to you because you're
you're so understanding being
having gone through this yourself
and it's just
you know it's
it's scary to think about
is this really gonna work is
is is it gonna be right for me
is she gonna be able to help me
but you don't know until you try
and you're willing to try injections in your head
with Botox and all of these other medications
it's just it
I just hope they try because it's
it's an amazing journey and
but
yeah sorry
I'm trying to not tear up and cry
but it's just I want this for every woman
and I just so I just
I hope that they just they they reach out to you
well thanks so much
Jody for sharing your story
really appreciate it
you and I have teared up a couple times together
on the phone you've
you've gotten me to tear up a few times
during your journey too
because it has really been
yep for sure
for sure so
so thank you so much for joining me today
and sharing your story and um
if anybody's in uh
in your neck of the woods in Montana
I would highly recommend they get one of those uh
cookie butter hahaha treats just
just combine it with enough uh
protein and fat
so that you don't spike and drop your blood sugar
but you know
we've got to be able to eat some treats
and you know
again I
I love this too
because you're like a migraine
suffer and you're a baker
which right if if you're following an elimination diet
you would never be able to even taste your own uh
product right
uh but you can you can do that and not get a migraine
uh huh
yes thank you
Doctor Lester I appreciate it
uh you're welcome
my pleasure thanks
thanks again for joining me
and thanks everybody for listening
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